If you could pick any actor to play Jesus who would you choose? Host Paul Cardall sits down with Jonathan Roumie (as seen on HBO’s Ballers, Chicago Med, NCIS, Castle, and more) to discuss the heart of his journey that led to the leading role in The Chosen as Jesus of Nazareth, a role often considered taboo in Hollywood.
If you could pick any actor to play Jesus who would you choose? Host Paul Cardall sits down with Jonathan Roumie (as seen on HBO’s Ballers, Chicago Med, NCIS, Castle, and more) to discuss the heart of his journey that led to the leading role in The Chosen as Jesus of Nazareth, a role often considered taboo in Hollywood. An award-winning actor, director, producer and voiceover artist, Roumie is a true representative of what it means to be “All Heart”. In representing the Son of God to audiences everywhere, Jonathan speaks on his goal to show the humanity of Jesus and his disciples. Topics explored include the importance of humility, how lives are impacted by the choices we make, and how to spread your light with others. Keep up with Jonathan’s incredible career on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. All Heart with Paul Cardall is proudly a part of the American Songwriter Podcast Network. For more information on Paul Cardall, please visit paulcardall.com and connect with him on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
- [Paul] Welcome to All Heart with Paul Cardall. Before we get started, I have a giveaway. All you gotta do is go to my website, paulcardall.com. And my last name is spelled C-A-R-D-A-L-L. So go to paulcardall.com and join the All Heart Club. You'll receive the song I've never made available anywhere. It's very easy. Just go to the website, paulcardall.com. Join the All Heart Club and receive this gorgeous piece of music. My guest today is the lead actor on a show I can't get enough of. Jonathan Roumie plays Jesus of Nazareth in "The Chosen" series. Jonathan is an award winning actor, director and producer. You may have seen him on The Rock's HBO series, "Ballers," or CBS' "Chicago Med, but this current role that he is in, he is quickly rising as one of today's brightest stars. And in the coming weeks, I'm going to dive even deeper into "The Chosen," because my guests will be Dallas Jenkins, who is the director and the writer. And we talked about casting the role of Jesus, which is not easy to do so. So that's why today's interview focuses on the personal life and the heart of Jonathan Roumie. What is it that he's done in his life to prepare him to play the son of God? But first, here's a scene from "The Chosen," where Jesus heals a blind man with birth paralysis. If you're listening to the audio, you can just go to my website under the podcast link and you can watch the scene.
- You! By whose authority do you teach? Answer me!
- If you are willing, rabbi, you know you can.
- Hey, I'm talking to you! By whom do you teach? Certainly not the authority of any rabbi from Nazareth. Where did you study?
- Your faith is beautiful. Son, take heart. Your sins are forgiven. Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? Right. But I ask you, which is easier to say, "Your sins are forgiven," or "Rise up and walk"? It's easy to say anything, no? But to show you, and so that you may know that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins, I say to you, my son, rise, pick up your bed, and go home. Easy does it.
- Oh!
- Yes, yes!
- Thank you.
- Mm. Now go on.
- We're gonna talk about "The Chosen," but I wanna talk about you.
- Sure.
- I've seen a lot of interviews with you with, you know, everybody wants to know about "The Chosen." I wanna know about Jonathan, because you don't just stumble into a role like that. I was in Cartagena on a film set with Jim Caviezel. He's playing Tim Ballard, who is a former Homeland Security agent that is heavily involved in rescuing children from sex trafficking.
- Is this the one that's coming out in the fall?
- Yes, the "Sound of Freedom" film that is being done.
- I'm excited to see that film. That film looks amazing.
- It's such a heavy subject. And I was part of their board for a long time. And I went down just to observe what was going on. I didn't, but you know, I met Jim and he said, that was the best, this is the second most important role for him other than playing Jesus Christ. And I thought, wow, that's, you know, because the man got electrocuted playing Jesus Christ.
- Yeah, yeah.
- So hopefully that's not the case.
- No, but who knows? I mean, you know, at this point, my job, as faithful Christian, if I'm really walking the walk is to just offer, offer up myself and as a vessel for the project and allow God's will to be done through me. And if, I'm sure there is going to be some kind of suffering, and as a Catholic, especially, we're big on offering up our suffering, you know, and in the same way that the saints did, you know, martyrs and people that suffered for years for the sake of Christ and it helps deal with the suffering. You know what I mean, to kind of know that the person responsible for your salvation went through this already. So it becomes much easier to deal with suffering when you're offering it up to Christ. So if that's what's meant to happen, then so be it, but hopefully I won't get electrocuted or, or have to have surgery.
- You know, that level of commitment as a human being, but also in your career, are you a method actor?
- The short answer is yes. I would consider myself a method actor because I use things like sense memory. I use affective memory. I use elements of my own life. That's the biggest thing with being a method actor, is you essentially are drawing from experiences in your own life. And some people choose not to do that, or they divorce themselves from, you know, delving into their own personal lives, which I think deprives us of a ton of richness, so.
- I've had kind of a chest cold. So I get the crackling of my lungs. And maybe if you can heal me, that would help, but. Let's go back to your childhood because you have a, to my understanding, and please correct me, your father is Egyptian and Greek Orthodox. And your mother-
- Yes.
- Is American and Roman Catholic.
- She, yeah, she was raised on a farm in Ireland and came out in her 20s to the United States. My father was raised in the city of Cairo, and then he traveled to the United States in the mid to late '60s, as well. And then they met in New York City and then started a life. And I was raised in New York City, and then we moved to the suburbs and then there wasn't the quite, so I was baptized Greek Orthodox and my parents were married in a Greek Orthodox church. And for my mother, it's, there was no, they're so similar in how, in their theology, in so many ways that it wasn't a big deal. And then when we moved to the suburbs of Long Island, there wasn't really an Orthodox community that we found, and that felt like home for us. So we started going to a Catholic church and my dad went to Catholic school as a kid in Egypt. So it was, he was kind of raised with, with both Orthodoxy and Catholicism. So again, there, shifting back was, for my dad to shift over, there was no real conflict, theological or liturgical, or religious conflict for him. And so myself and my sisters made our first communion and our confirmation, in the Catholic church. And then, yeah, just kind of, so I was raised with the faith.
- Being a Catholic in Egypt all those years ago, was that a common thing?
- Christianity, I mean, Christians were, and are a minority. They're a diminishing minority, or I should say, they're a minority that's diminishing in numbers even still to this day, which is pretty heart rending. And so I'm trying to do as much as I can with my own sort of work here, with some of the organizations I work with to deliver aid, to persecuted Christians in the Middle East, and seen as being outside of the system, they get treated a bit differently.
- So you play the drums.
- Music is a major part of my life for a long time. I'm actually an ASCAP member, as well. And I wrote my first song a few years back, which I was pretty proud of. And I was with a band for about three and a half, four years, which for me, my involvement ended in, I think, early 2017, because we had been touring and we were overseas. And it just got to be, it's not an easy lifestyle, as many of your listeners, I'm sure, who have been in bands, know that road life, life on the road is not the easiest, especially when you're a small band, in our case, a bar band, and... But it was fun. It was full of lots of adventures, but it's not, it's also not the healthiest lifestyle. And I found that it was sort of diverting me off of the path that I had deemed as part of my mission to, and the reason I came out to Los Angeles was not to be in a band. It was to work as an actor. So.
- It's fascinating.
- And I still play, I still play with people. Obviously not since COVID, but I've got a bunch of friends that whenever they've got some gigs, they're singer/songwriters, whenever they got some gigs coming up, I'll hop in for a set. And usually, now, it's, mostly like percussion, like Cajon and stuff like that. Yeah, and even in the band, the bar band, like we were in smaller venues and I kind of amplified, acoustically my sound as as a percussionist. And I would, you know, I would use brushes with my Cajon and sort of play it almost like a kit, where I could have my right hand is my bass drum, and my left hand is my snare drum. And I literally have like one of those brushes I'd never seen before, and for like the year, the first year I was with this band playing Cajon, I was breaking my hand every night. I was like taping up my hand because I was just, we were playing, high energy rock and pop music and stuff where I'm like, I can't sustain this. You know, I would need two days to ice my hands and for it to be able to play again until I discovered brushes. And that was like, that changed my life. And so we literally just learned, we added another percussionist. And so we just kinda became this little percussive Frankenstein of a band that sounded great, and just had a bunch of different voices and was very much welcomed by a lot of places that, clubs and bars that didn't want a full drum kit. And so, and it was very portable and so it worked really well for a long time. And when you put couple of mics on those things, nobody knows the difference. People, are like, are you making all that sound with that box? Like yep, it's just the box, me and a box.
- What are some of your musical influences? What do you like to listen to?
- Nah, I mean, I couldn't narrow it down to one. I mean, I listen to such a wide spectrum of stuff. I mean, I, you know, The Police were a huge influence on me, early on, Iron Maiden was a huge influence on my drumming. Like I learned to, I mostly learned to drum, I got the basics through lessons, and then I mostly learned to drum just by copying what I heard, playing what I heard and trying to figure out and decipher what I heard and break down. So Genesis, The Police, U2, Led Zeppelin, mostly rock stuff, and then it would get a little bit heavier. I started listening to Slayer at one point and going to shows and experiencing mosh pits. And so that kinda had a little bit of an influence, but just for everyday playing, it was mostly like progressive rock. I got into guys like Dave Weckl and, and the Chick Corea Band, and then I started getting into jazz and Rush and Toto and guys like Vinnie Colaiuta, whose playing was just so super clean and just like a metronome and, you know. It sort of ranged all over the places as my needs to expand and further my education as as a player necessitated.
- That's so cool, I love it. Yeah, Neil Peart, he's my...
- God rest his soul, yeah. What a loss, man.
- And the lyrics he would write, everything about it was a fantastic band, but yeah, that makes sense to be a fan of Police and all those bands playing drums and everything. I've been, you know, going through like all your training. You have had extensive training. Did you decide to become an actor or did acting decide for you?
- It kind of found me. I had no designs to be an actor whatsoever. I was a very, extremely shy, introverted kid. I was also an artist, a visual artist. I was a really good illustrator. I thought I might end up doing that at one point. And I won a couple awards as a high school student for some of my work and it was shown on a couple of galleries. And so, I thought I might do that. And then I realized I had a real love for film. And so I wanted to try to start directing myself towards like visual effects, something where I could incorporate my art, my visual art into film, which I didn't know much about, but I wanted to learn. But I was also a mimic from the time I was a young kid. So I always had, and that was the musician's ear that I think that came into play. And I thought, if there was anything I'd ever wanna do, as talent, in front of a camera, it wouldn't be in front of a camera, it'd be in front of a microphone. Voiceover would be thing that I wanna do, like I was a huge fan of "The Simpsons," growing up, that was a huge thing for me. And so, I thought if there was anything I would, it would maybe be voiceover. And so, when I was in college, or actually, a couple of years after I got out of college, there was a show at the time, and this is totally dating myself, but who cares? Called "Celebrity Deathmatch," and on, MTV.
- Yes.
- Which all... Do you remember that show? All of these clay animated celebrities would fight each other to the death, and it went on for a few seasons. And so one day I just thought, well, I could do some of the, the impressions for the celebrities, better than what they, the people that they've got, for some of them, I was, a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I'm like, I could do that, you know? And so I literally found the casting director's address when they used to put out like mailing addresses and information in the little book called the Ross Reports. And I sent her a letter. I wrote a letter and just said, "Hey, I could do impressions, "and I'd love to audition for the show." And I didn't hear anything for like a few months. And then she finally, I think I included my email address at the time, 'cause those were still fairly new.
- AOL, AOL.
- Yeah, it literally was an AOL address. And she wrote me back and said, "Hey, you know, call this number "and leave a recording of like your best impression." And so I did. And then she started emailing me auditions. And after about two or three months of random auditions, I start, I booked my first job, which was voicing Tony Danza, you know?
- Perfect.
- In "Celebrity Deathmatch."
- Give us a little bit of Tony. What does Tony sound like?
- Tony Micelli is kinda like Adrian. What are you doing? Sort of along those lines there, I forget what the monologue was, but it was this very gruff Italian guy. And most of whom I grew up with, so it was a pretty easy. That was a lob for me. So I hit that one. And then I ended up doing about 25 different characters over the course of three seasons for the show. And then that got me, when I wanted to go a little further, I was like, okay, I felt a little comfortable. I said to the casting director, I said, "Hey, you know, I think I wanna learn more about voiceover." And she's like, "Well, here's a guy you should study with. "He's one of the best in the City." And so I went and took a class with him and he was great. And I started finding my voice, so to speak, with voiceover.
- That was Stuart Dillon.
- He rec... Stuart Dillon, yeah, very good. Stuart Dillon, you do your homework. And Stuart connected me with my first agent, who was a commercial agent. And then she started sending me out for stuff and I started booking. And I was also, at the time, I became a location scout during that time, when I was starting voiceover. And so I started working on, I was working on Giant Studio Pictures as a scout, as an assistant and then a scout and then, eventually, a location manager.
- And you're still-
- Assistant managers-
- Still in New York at this time?
- Still in New York, yeah. And then, when I would be working on a film, I'd always just kinda check the script and see if there's anything like a small part that maybe I could audition for. And so, you know, I would tell casting directors, I learned about headshots and putting a resume together and I did my first play, which was playing a drummer in a band, oddly enough, which was great, a show called "Rock Show," and then I ended up getting a couple of auditions for some of the films I worked on and booking them. And then that kind of led to other things. And then, I think by that time I was, I had been doing, I'd been acting, from the time I booked my first episode of "Celebrity "Deathmatch" to the time I just about was ready to leave New York was about 10 years.
- Okay.
- And then I came to LA in 2000... End of 2009, beginning of 2010.
- And the main switch to go to LA was because there was more role opportunity out there?
- Yeah. Once the financial, once the housing market sort of dropped out, it became sort of, a real opportunity to examine what it is that I wanted to do with my life. And, I thought it's either now or never, and now is the perfect time to kind of reset and take this shot and see if I really have what it takes to make it as an actor, to really have a successful career, and New York, while there was, at the time, and there is even, there was even more now, up until COVID, obviously, there's more work than there's ever been in New York, at the time, it wasn't as a burgeoning a city with production and opportunities as, as Los Angeles. So I said, I might as well go A, where the weather is better and B, where all of the projects get their start, which is Los Angeles. So I did.
- When you decided to move out to LA, because obviously, you're close to your mother and your father, a devout religious home, and you're making this move from a place they know is safe to this big new world out there. What was that like for them?
- You know, I don't think it was an easy thing for them to hear, but I think they also recognized that God had given me gifts in this arena since I had been working a bit, even though it didn't amount, in those 10 years, to what I was doing 10 years out here, it was setting me up for something larger. And I think they kind of knew, I felt, I was sort of called, or I had a part of my destiny was coming out to Los Angeles, But it was, of course, it was extremely difficult to leave them and, and for them to see me leave and I was no longer an hour train ride away from them, coming home every weekend. So it was tough, but they've been nothing but supportive from the beginning, from everything I've ever done, they've been supportive of. I couldn't ask for two better parents, especially as an artist in, at that time, leaving New York, particularly unstable circumstances to come out here. I couldn't ask for more support than what they gave me.
- I wanna skip to that scene in "The Chosen," and we're gonna, how you ended up doing "The Chosen," but there's a beautiful scene in there where Jesus is with his mom.
- Actually, that would be a terrible thing to behold.
- My son!
- Ah, Andrew, you see, even my own mother will join us in the Song of Miriam.
- They've run out of wine.
- But it's only the first day.
- Yes, and it's all gone, not a drop left.
- Why are you telling me this?
- We can't let the celebration end like this. And Esther's son will be humiliated.
- Boys, go join the others. I'll be right there. Mother, my time has not yet come.
- If not now, when? Please. Do whatever he tells you.
- And you see that very human, boy-like, mommy-like relationship that is special and fun, how does that compare to the relationship you have with your own mom?
- Well, being somebody who kind of works as a method actor, as we discussed earlier, I brought my relationship with my mother into that relationship with Jesus, between Jesus and the blessed mother. So for me, one of the things when you first see us meet in Episode 5, before the wedding of Cana I kind of pick her up, I bear hug her, and I spin her around. And that was something that I'd wanted to do because that's how I greet my mother when I haven't seen her in awhile. And, and my mother's, funny enough, they're about the same height. My mom's petite, and so it's an easy thing to do, And anytime I pick her up, she's literally laughing because she just, her feet are like two feet off the ground at that point, so. It's just a moment of joy for me, and I just made sure Dallas was cool with that. And he's like, yeah, yeah, do whatever. And he's been, you know, great with allowing us to bring our own personal nuggets of own lives into the show as through our characters.
- So you're in LA, you're getting situated, you're getting started, you have an agent.
- Yeah. That was part of the reason why I felt really good about it. So I came out in the fall of 2009. I had done a sort of reconnaissance trip in 2007, and I had met with some people that said, "If you were here, we would work with you." So I did another trip where you're meeting casting directors and agents and managers, on this trip in the fall of 2009, and then I got signed out of that, and I was like, ready. And I just needed a sign to show me that that was the right decision. So the sign was getting signed. And so I said, great. And then I, three months later, I was here and I didn't go out once for like nine months. Like I had nothing. I said, well, maybe it just takes a little time. And then all of a sudden, you know, it dawned on me, I'm like, this isn't, yeah, I gotta get out of this because this is not working. And I made my own relationships, I met other people, I found my own auditions other ways, but that was hugely frustrating.
- Did you start to doubt the fact that you had this sign that you suddenly, you know, to come out there and be out there, did you start to question your whole purpose?
- I couldn't understand it. I didn't understand why they would sign me, and I've heard a myriad of reasons that are not positive as to how that could happen or why an agency would maybe do that or what the, you know, so I just, I tried to not listen to the negative stuff and just try to do the... I'm an optimist, I'm a glass half-full kinda guy. So I'm like, okay. And also as my experience working in the film industry as a location manager, specifically, as a location manager, but almost any other department, but when you're the head of a department or the assistant, the second in command of a department, your job is to problem solve. And on a film set, as a location manager, you're dealing, you're the liaison. Anytime you go to a new location to shoot the day's scenes, you're now the liaison between 15 department heads, a crew of about a hundred, and then, the person who owns that location, that property, and you gotta basically have your eyes everywhere, make sure people aren't breaking stuff, make sure they're not in rooms they're not supposed to be on, make sure they're not planting a grip stand on the newly sodded turf outside of the property of the home or whatever. And so, you're constantly fielding questions and there's always gonna be a fire. So you have to really get good at problem solving and not focusing on why, why, why? It's just like, all right, this is the situation. What am I gonna do about it? How am I gonna fix it? How am I gonna move forward? How are we gonna, how am I gonna have success at this point? So I had, there was only so much I could do. The thing that I kind of just procrastinated was letting go of that relationship, which I learned I would never wait that long again to do that sort of a thing is to, for nary an audition in eight months, would never happen again. But that, you know, as I look back now, I can see that if they had not signed me then, I might not have come out here then, things may have been different. I might not have found my destiny. So I have to look at everything through the lens of God. God decides, as long as he knows I have a willing heart, he's going to decide what's best for me. And then it's up to me to just sort of recognize that, even if I don't see it, and at the time I didn't see it. I wouldn't have seen it like that, especially compared to now, but I would just say, well, you brought me here for something. I don't know what, but I'm pretty sure this is still it. So maybe it's just to kind of build up my skin, thicken my skin out here and figure out what the next move is and learn from this some.
- It reminds me, obviously, of the scene in "The Chosen" where you're at the well, and you're waiting. And we're all waiting as we watched that scene, is that woman coming, because you said you were gonna be meeting somebody, Jesus says, I'm gonna be meeting somebody here, tells the disciples, just go in town and do their thing. And so, you know, it's kinda like that moment where, you know something's supposed to happen, something's gonna happen, but then, you start to go when? When is it gonna happen?
- Yeah.
- And there's a word called longsuffering, in the scriptures everywhere. God is, God has long suffering, meaning he can patiently wait for good things to come. And I guess an optimist, that's the only way to survive that is to be an optimist.
- Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what's your alternative?
- Right, well, you've been doing quite a bit. You've done "The Newsroom," "Interns," "NCIS," you did "Ballers," "Hart of Dixie," "Castle," "Parenthood," "Law and Order," you did a couple of soap operas.
- Yeah.
- The list goes on. A lot voiceover work, "Wonder Pets!" My kids will be happy about that, knowing that Jesus is on the "Wonder Pets!" All those things, and it leads to this massive role that you are now part of, which is, you are the main character in one of the most important, what I believe is one of the most important series that has found a way to be self-funded, but he says, we're gonna do this in complete, season one, season two, we're gonna go all the way to the resurrection slowly and carefully, as a way of building the character in such a profound way, that by the time we see you crucified, we're all gonna be dying inside. Now you have this major role. How did you feel about all that, knowing that you would be the son of God?
- Well, you know, I think having played Jesus before, for Dallas, specifically, in three other projects, kind of gave us that shorthand that I knew that we'd have on set. From the beginning, there's... It's been made public what the goal is. The goal is, God willing, eight seasons, right, of eight episode per season for the show. But from the beginning, there's never been any idea that anything is set in stone. The most I knew is that we were moving forward with a series, that we would shoot at least four episodes. Hopefully, we would get to shoot all eight for a season. And then, hopefully, maybe we get a couple of seasons. And if we were really lucky, seven or eight seasons, by the time the series is done. So I've learned to not think about the entire scope of what it is. I think my head would probably explode if I tried to really consider what it was that we were trying to tackle here. And I think God is very smart in his design with how he disseminates information and our experiences on earth and in life, knowing what we could and couldn't handle.
- Okay.
- And I think, also keeping us in faith, and as Dallas and his wife, Amanda Jenkins say, keeping us on the manna program, the loaves and fishes where, with the manna program, specifically, it's like, you just get that day's bread. You know, give us this day our daily bread, not your weekly bread, not your monthly bread, today's bread, let's eat today and worry about today. Tomorrow has worries all its own. So I've often reflected on that and I refer to that in my own life. So it's not really, I don't really think about it so much. I just, I know that it's important. I know that there is a lot of people that are going to be affected by this. And my only, if I'm lucky, on a good day, my only thought is, or my only prayer is that Lord, let people see, not my face today or hear me speaking, but hear Jesus speaking, and hear the Spirit speaking through me and see Jesus within me, portraying these, reenacting these scenes out of scripture and then everything that's extra biblical, that's in between scripture, let that be inspired by scripture and let it be, let it resonate with people so that they turn to scripture and that they're inspired by the word themselves and to explore and to meet Jesus themselves in the Bible. Now, having this, hopefully, this relatability that, perhaps, they didn't have before, or, you know, debunking these myths about, who the son of God might have been and what it would have meant to, to meet him as a human being on this planet. What's, did he laugh, did he dance? Did he smile, did he do these things that we're portraying in the show? And, if we really believe that he was 100% human, as well as 100% divine, 100% human in everything except sin, of course, if we really believe that, then we have to believe he experienced everything, to every degree that we did, and then some. So that's what we're trying to depict, is Jesus' humanity and how, and the disciples' humanity. They're not just icons on stained glass. They were living, breathing people like you and I, sitting here right now, having this conversation. And if people can relate to Jesus through their eyes and their experiences and be affected by him, then maybe we, too, can be affected by Christ.
- It's fascinating because I'm talking to you and I'm talking to Jonathan, I don't, it's amazing how you are able to create, under Dallas's guidance, that character, of Jesus, because it's clearly a separate entity from who you are, and in the music world, you have performers, but then when you meet them, they're just, it's just average guys. Smart, intelligent, creative people under control, humility, I believe is called, is strength under control, and you embody that. And yet, you've created this Christ that people are posting images of that Christ as their Christ on Facebook. And you know of me personally, I've shared a couple things and I witness and I share my feelings a lot about Jesus and I've started using that image. And it's interesting because I don't even put Jonathan in that image. That's how well you've done that job. The other thing that you're doing that's fascinating, I know that you do a lot of advocacy work for Catholicism, and you've been doing prayers, prayer hours nightly. And my wife is Catholic, and so, sometimes I say, I lean over in bed, and I say, "What are you listening to?" She goes, "I'm listening to Jonathan do the rosary."
- Oh wow.
- Because it sounds like-
- What an honor.
- Jesus is doing the rosary, for her. And she's having these sacred, spiritual experiences. She's drawing closer to God because of the work you're doing. And we're just one family, Jonathan, and that's what's brilliant about the gift that God has given you. We never know.
- That's beautiful.
- We never know the lives that are impacted by the choices we make, that are all heart, to just be the best we can, do the best we can, and it expands beyond. So I'm grateful for the gift God gave you and the ability to create what you've created. I do think that it's a, if we go to the business side of things, it's Oscar worthy, it's Emmy worthy. And I believe you've won-
- Wow, thank you.
- A Movieguide Award.
- Yeah, yeah, they've been super supportive. And they're lovely, lovely people. And movieguide.org. I hadn't heard of them until we got nominated for this thing, and Dallas had been nominated before for some of his earlier work, but I never heard of them. And then I started reading up on them. And then, at the awards, before the actual awards are given out, we were given a little presentation by Dr. Ted Baehr about the state of the faith based industry and how, and I had no idea about this, but they are almost, if not always successful, financially, like statistically speaking, like faith-based, family inspired, family-minded films will always make money than anything else, like above and beyond, and the fact that Hollywood doesn't capitalize on that more is, it just kind of gives you an idea as to what's going on in Hollywood, but I had no idea about that. And so their whole thing is to encourage and reward and push on these, and inspire these filmmakers to continue to make this kind of content. Because not only is it uplifting and morally encouraging, but it's financially rewarding. It's like, God is sort of rewarding these people for being faithful to him, and these are people that really have God on their hearts. It's not, you know, a Hollywood version of a Bible epic that they've got big names and they're trying to make a buck, but these are smaller companies that are making stuff that they really want to get out there, and it's mostly message driven.
- Do you think "Then Chosen," obviously with the crowdfunding that's happened, you had 19,000 people from all over the world, I know a lot of people from my home state of Utah, raised a lot of money for "The Chosen," do you think that's gonna help break down some of the walls so that filmmaking can be done in a more personal way that reaches a specific demographic, rather than just trying to do something that's not as meaningful or, because it seems like most of the movies that come out these days are void of any atonement. It's man's atonement, they try to find redemption in some alternative universe. And I always go, where is God in this? Because people are religious, people are spiritual. That's always removed from film.
- Yeah. Yeah, I think it has definitely inspired people to try to approach filmmaking differently. I also recognize that what we've done and what we've accomplished thus far is an anomaly, and can only be attributed to the Holy Spirit working through this project. So I think, if people want to harness the Spirit, and they have that within them, and they want to make films that want to be able to give glory to God in some way, I think, if it's God's will for it to move forward, anything can happen. I think it's, it is, you know, I couldn't give you any kind of predictive answer on the metrics of that because it just, it's never been done before. Could it be done again? I think so, but I think it would have to be the right project and the right audience. So, you know, it's something that we still kind of scratch our heads and say, "How did this happen? "How did this," we just consider ourselves, all of us involved, just so blessed that it's gone where it's gone. Because I mean, if you've heard Dallas' story, when the over at VidAngel said, "Hey, we wanna crowdfund this," using his film, "The Shepherd," which was about the nativity of Jesus, as seen through the eyes of the shepherd, "We wanna crowdfund this ourselves, "and we think we could raise money to do the series," and Dallas' response is like, you're crazy. You'd be lucky if you raise $800. Like literally those were his words, and $10+ million later, we got season one shot, and now we're halfway funded through season two through a pay it forward program, not even the same thing we did before. Like the second season is being funded completely differently from the first season. So everything about this, I mean, the line from episode, is it 7? "Get used to different" could not be more applicable to this series, to the concept of what we've been able to do here and what Dallas and his team have been able to do. I didn't do any of that. I just showed up and said, "Yes," and that's been my thing is just like, just say yes, just go with it. And, and I think as a result, a perfect storm has kind of put us in the position we are today. But everybody, from the top down to the distributors, it's like, what does God want us to do? I mean, that's their hearts. The guys at VidAngel, they're some of the most beautiful, smartest marketing guys, but their hearts are for Christ, you know? And so, that's where this pay it forward program came, and it's like, you can watch it for free. And if you feel hat it's affected your life in a positive way, pay it forward. For 15 bucks, you can have the series on your phone permanently, and then 10 other people, who maybe can't afford to watch the series in Uganda, who have smartphones, can watch the show about Jesus and know about Jesus. That's the brilliance in that system. They came up with that. So everything has been inspired and driven by the Holy Spirit throughout this entire process. And so I just, I just pray to just be able to keep saying yes, and that God keeps me on the path.
- It's a remarkable, remarkable journey. And you obviously, there's so much ahead for you, not just with "The Chosen," but in all these other roles that God is gonna bring to you. It's gonna be exciting to watch your career continue to evolve and grow. You are becoming a very well-known, household name and that's gotta bring some sense of comfort. And yet, you know, you have to go out and find the jobs and audition all those things. As we conclude here on "All Heart," I always ask my guests, and I had Dallas on, I ask my guests years from now, when we're all gone, what is it that you hope people who knew you remember most about who Johnathan Roumie was? Was he driven, was he led? Who was Jonathan Roumie? What do you hope?
- I think, I would hope that people would feel that... I sought God with my heart and hoped to encounter him at every turn in my life. And to share those encounters with other people, especially those that are searching for meaning in their life, and that perhaps, if I could lead them to a deeper experiential relationship with their creator, that would be pretty amazing.
- What's one thing people can do that you've done to help you feel God's love and grace and the motivation to just continue to enjoy this beautiful world, that's very complex and a lot of painful, there's a lot of pain in this world, but what advice, amidst all the darkness and the sadness, how do you bring the light into your life?
- I'm gonna adapt something that I kind of say in my prayer hours. The first thing I would say is be humble. Be bold. If you're going to share your faith with anybody, you gotta be bold, but you gotta be humble and you gotta to lead with love. But I think that the biggest thing is to be humble, because I think if you, if you have a sense of humility, everything else has the, the soil is tilled for all other human virtues to take root in a person's spirit. And then you are now able to, people will want to, they will be open to you. If they think you have a chip on your shoulder, or you have ownership on the truth and you know what God's saying, but nobody else does? You lost, you can't be an effective witness. So I think the biggest thing is be humble. And then everything else will have room to grow.
- Thank you for listening to All Heart with Paul Cardall. This has been part one of a two-part series about "The Chosen." On the next episode, you'll meet the creator, the writer, and the director of this incredible inspiring series, Dallas Jenkins, on the next All Heart with Paul Cardall.