All Heart with Paul Cardall

The Broken Miracle: J.D. Netto and Elizabeth Sagan

Episode Summary

Paul Cardall discusses The Broken Miracle with author J.D. Netto (Whispers of The Fallen) and Bookstagrammer Elizabeth Sagan, an art director who uses her own personal library to create whimsical digital art that’s created a massive following on Instagram. Both authors have used their artistic gifts to inspire millions to pick up a book and fall in love with reading as a lifestyle.

Episode Notes

Paul Cardall discusses The Broken Miracle with author J.D. Netto (Whispers of The Fallen) and Bookstagrammer Elizabeth Sagan, an art director who uses her own personal library to create whimsical digital art that’s created a massive following on Instagram. Both authors have used their artistic gifts to inspire millions to pick up a book and fall in love with reading as a lifestyle. The three creatives discuss how writing can be so useful in processing emotions and the importance of staying true to yourself. J.D. shares how The Broken Miracle, the upcoming duology inspired by real events in Paul’s life, came to be and Elizabeth gives her feedback after reading Part 1. The Broken Miracle Part 1 comes out on February 2, 2021. Preorders of the paperback are available now! Follow @thebrokenmiraclenovel and visit thebrokenmiracle.com for updates and more information. Find J.D. and Elizabeth on Instagram @jdnetto and @elizabeth_sagan. To keep up with Paul, find him on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTubeAll Heart with Paul Cardall is proudly a part of the American Songwriter Podcast Network.

Episode Transcription

- [Announcer] Paul Cardall is thrilled that "All Heart" with Paul Cardall is joining the "American Songwriter Podcast Network. American Songwriter has been a home for songwriters, musicians and music lovers for over 35 years. And the award winning pianist, songwriter and transplant recipient truly believes it is the perfect place for his podcast.

 

- Hi guys, I'm Paul Cardall, this is "All Heart". Before we jump into our conversation with bestselling author, J.D. Netto, and books to grand mega star, Elizabeth Sagan, I wanna talk about something that happened 11 years ago, today. Imagine you have a damaged heart and the doctors tell you it has to be replaced. That's the situation I was in. You're in the operating room, you're not sure if you're going to survive. You're thinking, is there anything else I could have said to my family? Is there anybody I should have reached out to? I wanna live, I want a second chance. I hope these surgeons get this right. And then, you go to sleep because the surgeon is going to remove your heart and they're gonna replace it with a new one, a younger, healthier donor heart. And then, you wake up and you're not gone. You're alive, and there's family. And you recognize you do get a second chance at life, and all these thoughts of what am I gonna do with this second chance? Well, I think about my organ donor every single day, because I know the sacrifice his family made because for me to be alive, it meant somebody had died and donated that organ. My thoughts are with them today. But every day is a gift. It is not easy, it is challenging, it is hard. We have growing pains, we live in a world where people do not get along. There's a lot of violence and I mean, I could go on and on, but here's the bottom line, I fought to live because I wanted a second chance. I wanted to be here for my kids, for my family, for you. And ever since I received that heart, it has been my mission to create music that is gonna help heal your heart. To interview people, to make you aware of people who are all heart, who are making an impact, to get feedback from you. The emails I received from you or so inspiring. Those of you that get the "All Heart" newsletter know about broken miracle. This is the story J.D. Netto is gonna talk about today. It's my story. And I'm excited because Elizabeth had a chance to read it. We're gonna talk about these things in so much more, today on "All Heart" with Paul Cardall. Be grateful you are alive, breathe, relax, and just enjoy the conversation. Hey you guys doing?

 

- Hey.

 

- Hello.

 

- Hi, Elizabeth.

 

- Hi, Liz.

 

- Hi there.

 

- So, Liz, all Paul is, needs more.

 

- Nice to meet you, nice to finally meet you.

 

- You are-

 

- I mean, Liz does know you somewhat, I guess, 'cause you know, she did read part one.

 

- Yes, I did.

 

- Well, first off, Elizabeth, is it Elizabeth or Liz or? I know it's Elizabeth Sagan. Yeah, but your artwork, your graphic design, everything you are doing is like mind-blowing, like I-

 

- Yes, I love it.

 

- I'm not kidding, everyone needs to go to your Instagram and watch these presentations that are like, these are things that like fortune 500 companies would go, "How do we do that?" And you're pulling it off so it's amazing.

 

- Thank you so much.

 

- Well, that's gonna get everyone to go over there because they've gotta see it. So, but now where are you from, Elizabeth?

 

- I'm from Romania.

 

- No kidding, that is amazing, I love, that is one country I wanna get to, it's beautiful.

 

- It's a beautiful country and you feel totally visited.

 

- That's amazing, the thing it's-

 

- We all should take a trip.

 

- We should all take a trip. Well, the thing that's called here is that this is a very diverse group because J.D., you were born in Brazil and then you came to United States. And Elizabeth, you were born in Romania, are you still in Romania? Where are you now?

 

- Yes, I'm in Romania.

 

- You are.

 

- Everyone, yes. Everyone expects me to be either from UK or United States and it always comes as a surprise that I'm from Romania.

 

- But what I wanna do here on "All Heart", which is, you know, sponsored by the American Songwriter Podcast Network. And this is a network that musicians from all over the world, they like to tune in and figure out how to understand the music world, but the beautiful thing with "All Heart" is I'm able to, as a musician, as a songwriter, interview people who I find absolutely fascinating, who are all heart and you know, right off the bat, when J.D. said, you know, "Hey, let's have Elizabeth." He was like, "I kinda want Elizabeth alone," because she's just so amazing in the artwork and everything you're doing. So many graphic artists, designers, marketing people, I'm telling you if you're in that world, follow Elizabeth Sagan's Instagram because it is so beautiful and inspirational.

 

- Paul, can you pause for one minute? I gotta, my iPad is on and if a call comes in, it's gonna leak here, can you, one minute.

 

- Yeah, yeah. Have you been seeing Elizabeth? Have you been seen his, the photos of him as a child that he's been posting, the little boy, little J.D.?

 

- Yeah, the recent ones, yeah, I have seen them.

 

- He's adorable. His first drawing is the crucifixion of Christ.

 

- I saw that as well.

 

- [Netto] Yes, now imagine. Imagine my mother, oh my God. That's all I keep thinking about. My mother would have been devastated, not devastated, but like.

 

- Why?

 

- [Netto] That's not what I meant. I mean, like, she's gonna be like worries.

 

- Well, you know, while J.D. is fixing his iPad, he comes from a very religious background. So I would expect that your first drawing would be of that. Like the very intense, violent.

 

- Yeah.

 

- Thing that was just like, oh my gosh, you're telling me I'm a little boy, and you're telling me about this horrific scene. So obviously that was, I expected from you, anyways.

 

- It was just more like, you know, you're a three-year-old and you draw the crucifixion of Christ. Perhaps I use the wrong word, I think my mom was probably very surprised that I wasn't drawing, you know, teddy bears or things like that and, but I never really enjoyed the inset stories. I think, I don't know if Liz was the same way, but I always wanted more. I wanted a more depth to the things that I loved. So that was always me.

 

- Well, let me ask both of you.

 

- Absolutely.

 

- Let me ask both of you a question. You're both incredible writers. You have loyal fans, loyal fans, not just fans, these are loyal fans that adore you. When you're younger, and we'll start with Elizabeth, what was the first book that you read that left you going, "Oh my gosh, I wanna write, I want to be a writer." What was the first book? And then J.D. after Elizabeth.

 

- I don't remember the first book that I've read. I remember the book that changed everything for me. So I was reading before being in love with books, because I just had to. The first book that changed everything for me, was "Magyk" by Angie Sage. And when I saw it, it was total, a cover buy, and I saw that cover, I bought it, I already imagined the story behind that cover. It had nothing to do with the real story inside the pages, but I read it and it just started for me.

 

- What is the plot of that story? What is the point of that book? And why.

 

- It's about the seventh son of a seventh son who is a magician of sorts, I don't remember exactly. I know it's about above the seventh son of a seventh son. But aside from that, I don't remember anything. And it's about the ring because that ring was on the cover and it was a snake eating its own tail, and this is what sparked my interest in that book.

 

- Yeah, talk, I didn't think of that one. That's amazing, I love that.

 

- Very true, he didn't.

 

- Yeah, that is incredible. What about you J.D.?

 

- Man, I mean, from a very young age, even in Brazil, when I was a kid, my hobby was to draw characters and to write stories. And, but when I came to the States, as I learned English, I remember there were, it was actually three books that made me fall in love with that. "Huckleberry Finn" kind of was the first spark Mark Twain instilled in me like that, this is interesting and then I found out that "Jurassic Park" was a novel by Michael Crichton and I bought it and I read it, but it wasn't until I discovered The Lord Of The Rings" that I really said, "Oh my God," like, okay, my mind is not as wild as I thought. Like, you know, there are people out there that are doing this and it's socially acceptable, I guess you could say that, but it was definitely those three and then it just, yeah, I started creating my own adventures.

 

- That's incredible and then that type of material is not, I mean, that is not something a younger person usually is drawn to, it's usually in the later, you know, in your college days in life that you start to get drawn to those types of stories. For me, I fell in love with literature from my, just taking English classes in high school and the first book that we were assigned to read that blew my mind and really changed me was Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter".

 

- Wow.

 

- Yeah, yeah, I felt such.

 

- Really?

 

- Love and compassion for Hester and everything in that story, because you had this built-in religious society and they were hiding things and it was just so interesting to me which is interesting because here I am born the United States, I speak English, I don't know another language, you guys have both, you're both from other countries where you had a native language, Portuguese, Romanian. So Elizabeth, that transition from Romanian to English because you do write books in English.

 

- And it all started in college because before the second year of college, I wasn't reading any books in English and I started with "Percy Jackson" and it was very accessible and after that, after "Percy Jackson", the next book in English and the next and next and right now, I'm not reading in my native language anymore, or I am, but super, super rarely. Reading came naturally, writing, not so much because when you read, you can come across an unknown word and it doesn't matter that much because you understand it in a context but when you write, you have to be super careful with the way in which you build your sentence, your paragraphs, so, yeah, it was more of a struggle.

 

- That's incredible, what about you, J.D.?

 

- Me, and for me, so I have this vivid memory when I was a kid in Brazil, I got the VHS for Titanic and it was in English with Portuguese subtitles and I was nine, around nine, 'cause this was '97. So I remember telling myself, one day, I'm gonna work in that language and I'm gonna speak like these guys do." And crazy because three years after I was here in the States in Massachusetts, and I was splitting to the ESL program, English as a second language, and I actually graduated from the program within a year. So it came, it was, I don't know, like I was destined for it, I guess if I can even say that, but it wasn an easy transition. Today, my English is my language of expression. I speak Portuguese, but if I really want to express myself, English is what I go to, so it's definitely, and Liz, can actually understand that it's because it's kind of like you have two personalities in a way when you speak different languages, even the way your voice sounds, the way you carry yourself is very different.

 

- I think every language has a certain spirit. You can say personality, but you feel it differently, you feel English.

 

- You do.

 

- I feel English differently than I feel Romanian. I still have a lot to learn and a lot to work on, but I, what I want to say is that I am truly impressed with what you did and the story you shared, J.D. about the way in which you learned a new language, and now you can write in this language, that was impressive.

 

- Yeah, it was, you know, now I share it, but imagine a 12-year-old kid, you know, in America, you just show up and you're like, "Hey!" Okay.

 

- I'm sure, that was a really foreign experience to y'all suddenly being in the United States and hear the English constantly, the flow of it. Let's talk about projects you guys are working on. Elizabeth, what is something that you're working on right now?

 

- I'm working on, like, I started working on the project of my heart four, five, five years ago and it was the first book that I finished, completed, edited, it's done. And right now, of course, I would very much like to see it published and I'm working on that, but I realized that I might have started, I'm writing it with James, we are co-authors.

 

- Oh, wow.

 

- So we are not only taking pics together, we are also writing together. And right now we realize that we might have started the story in the wrong point. And we want to tell the same story, but we want to start with the events, 100 years into the future, when things already happened and when things are really-

 

- I love that, I love that.

 

- Because many authors are writing their first book and then they write the prequel and then they write the sequel and so on. So that might work. And we recently started working on that just this week.

 

- Yeah.

 

- And I'm very excited to be back on track with writing and to be back in this place of talking about the story of brainstorming and back to the story I really, really love because for a very long time, when I was trying to get the first book published, I stopped writing anything else and I could feel it. I could feel writing missing from my life, but I started again and I'm feeling amazing.

 

- When people think to themselves, you know, "I wanna write a story but I don't think I'll ever get published." Do you feel that they should write anyways?

 

- Absolutely, absolutely because Stephen King said, I think, don't quote me on that, but he said that, first of all, you are a writer if you write, you're not a writer if you get published, of course you are. But the fact that you write makes you a writer and you should be able to write if this is what your soul wants, your heart wants, even though, even if you might never get published.

 

- Exactly.

 

- If there is something inside you that wants to get out, you should leave, totally leave.

 

- And before, and I totally agree, 'cause before we hear from J.D., all those years ago, when I was in a hospital and unsure of anything, I was, I decided to write and I kept a blog, not for attention to me to get prayers or whatever, nice cards in the mail, but it was a way for me to process what was happening to write it down and then as I read it back, I could understand my own situation. I shared that with a gentleman in my neighborhood who is a clinical psychiatrist and he said, "The best thing you can do when you're in life in dealing with anxiety, stress, all these things is to write, write, write, because it will save you, it will help you.

 

- Either that or any other creative outlet, write, and just do something that comes from inside.

 

- So true.

 

- Yeah.

 

- So true.

 

- That is so true.

 

- Play the piano.

 

- Play the piano, it's crazy because during quarantine here in the States, it had been years since I had been, since I had picked up an actual pencil and a piece of paper to draw, I was used to the iPad, digital art and it was a way for me to stay mentally healthy, was to go back to that beginning, I guess and I bought this huge notebook and these charcoals, 'cause I love drawing with charcoal, that's my favorite thing to do. And I just started expressing myself through that again as a way to stay grounded. So I agree with Liz, arts in general, like music or books or pictures, whatever you, out, like you have to express your emotion is such an imperative thing for everyone.

 

- And obviously, you know, we're all creative. So we have that kind of that mentality. People tend to think creatives are somewhat of outsiders, misfits, a little strange. I think we're the most normal people in the world, but J.D., let's talk about what you're working on 'cause I'm interested.

 

- I don't know what I'm working on, I forgot. So it's been a year and a year and three months that I've been writing this novel called "The Broken Miracle". It is now a duology inspired by someone named Paul Cardall. Liz, do you know who that guy is? I have no idea who Paul Cardall is.

 

- I don't know.

 

- No idea who he is, and it's been, and I don't just say this, but it's been truly an honor to be entrusted with this story because it is, it was life changing for me when Paul reached out, we were in New York city in April of last year when we could still go out to restaurants without masks and sit down and you know, we were in New York and I said, it's Paul, I said, "This novel will not only be a miracle for readers, but I have a feeling that it's gonna be my own as well." It was an interesting thing because at times, I felt like I was writing for myself, like my reader as if I was, I needed to read the words I was writing, it was an interesting dynamic. It was a very healing process for me, it was so interesting because I was used to writing these elaborate worlds of fantasy and magic and then I resorted to human emotion and that's all I had. And it's been an amazing journey, I mean, part two is almost done, part one is finished. So, and Liz got to read it and I was so nervous when I sent her this manuscript because Liz is a very honest book reviewer. She does not hold back no matter who you are, she will say it like it is. So when I got her feedback, I was like, "Oh my God, okay, I feel good."

 

- So yeah, I mean, so just so everybody knows. Several years ago, I started getting a lot of people asking if they could write my story, they wanted to do some type of biography because the music is now in 160 countries and we've got, you know, billions of streams and about 2.6 million people who subscribed and they wanted to know kind of the deeper story so I kept getting people asking, but then J.D. you, you know, you were following me on Instagram, I started following you and I was intrigued by just your story, your journey, and the relationships you had forge with people like Elizabeth and you had created this whole world called "Saved by the Page". And this was fascinating to me because you were using books to help people with anxiety, depression, people that are suicidal, reading is that escape that draws you back into, you know, in and out the realities, because we need to feel that love and books can do that for us. And so I was so impressed by it, that's when we reached out. And then I said, you know, if I ever had a story told, I think I want you to do it, and that's when.

 

- You did.

 

- That's when you're like, "Okay." So we started talking, I think it was like a year of communication 'cause I was very disturbing to know that I was-

 

- You know it was, so it was November 2018. I remember because I was at the gym, yeah, 'cause "Saved by the Page" came out shortly before, and by the way, Liz has an amazing story there and so does James, they're all contributors to "Saved by the Page". But I remember it was a few weeks after, I was at the gym and I saw your DM. And then we started talking again at the beginning of 2019 before my move to Boston and then we made it official because in April, I was already in the Northeast and then I made this trip to New York three weeks after I had moved in-

 

- That's right, you were North of the wall.

 

- I was North of the wall. And it's been an amazing journey with these characters and just writing that story. And again, for everybody who's listening, the main events are real. I got to create characters, I got to create people that will lead up to those main events but every major event is real. So that's what I'm working on right now.

 

- So would you say that this is a fictional novel, "The Broken Miracle", is it exactly all the details of the subject-

 

- It's a fictional biography, no, it's a fictional biography because literary, Paul, Liz, this is how, when I talk to Paul, this is how I say literary Paul and real life Paul.

 

- There's two in me.

 

- Literary Paul, there, yeah, there are two. I even gave him somewhat more of a, I don't wanna say, like his personality is a little different. The supporting characters are very different. The main events are real, transplant, you know, and other things, that is real and how things get there,

 

- The principles.

 

- The principles are real, but I got to have fun in creating the moments that lead up to that. Obviously grounded in the reality of Paul's life, I didn't, I wasn't like, yeah and then Paul jumped on a dragon and flew to Chicago, like that's not something you're gonna find.

 

- I think we should add that, you need to add that chapter, that sounds a lot more interesting.

 

- Liz, you read it, you're the reader, what did you think? Should we add that to the book?

 

- I would like to see it in the second book because the first book was perfect as it was. I loved it aside from the fact that I love the write thing. I love the dialogue, I'm a huge fan of well-written dialogue, and it ticked all the right boxes for me. The story hit differently because I knew it was real, of course, the grounding of, yeah, I think maybe some things were fictional, but it was grounded in reality. And it's one thing to read about a character and feel for them, but now it's fiction and another thing to know that those events happened and there were points when I had theory eyes. I absolutely loved it, I shared it on my stories, I was truly amazed.

 

- Wow, wow.

 

- In some people it's funny because some people are like, we got to share the book with a few beta readers, Liz, even before, but some people like they go, "I can't believe this is real." I'm like, yeah, no, like, and it's like the journey, people just, they can't quite get it, it's fascinating.

 

- I feel it's interesting 'cause I feel like my life has been fantasy because there are so many unusual events that do not happen to a lot of people and it is in a way a fantasy and so I think that's the brilliance of it being a fictional story because people then are able to connect with the characters on their level, rather than saying, "This is a book about a musician, this is a book about Mick Jagger, this is a book," you know, this takes you into a journey of challenges that are real for so many people and it doesn't really matter that it's about me, it's about the subject content of what's going on and what's happening but how to overcome and deal with these dramatic events in life.

 

- And the best part is that it can inspire people. I don't know if J.D. shared with you the story, the story reply that I got, but there was someone who thanked me for talking about this book and for sharing it because she has a son who is suffering from the same condition and she told me that she can't wait for "The Broken Miracle" to come out because she wants to share it with her son.

 

- Wow.

 

- And show him that it's possible.

 

- Wow.

 

- I think the beautiful thing about art, especially books, right? Books, music, movies, it creates culture. It creates friendships, it creates this bond that no matter where you are in the world, people can connect. And when I did say by the page, honestly, after I finished the tour for "The Whispers of the Fallen" in 2017, I was like, but there has to be more than just this. You know, I don't believe in empty art, I believe in art that has a message, dragons, castles, dinosaurs, whatever you want to use, I still believe there's a message behind it. And when, "Saved by the Page", when I had that idea, I knew he had the power to inspire people differently and "The Broken Miracle" is very much in the same vein, I would say, just because there are so many things in that book that are not really, I don't wanna say popular, but not really discussed so openly and it's there.

 

- Something that really stood out for me J.D. is, you know, you haven't just created this book to help people, but you've built a community online thebrokenmiracle.com. You've created the impossible tails, which is sponsored with "Saved by the Page" where people can go and share a story of their own, something they've been through, something the way, a book, music or anything, just a miracle that they've seen happen, something that's out of the ordinary that's changed them. And it's been incredible to watch all these people come and share, you know? And so that's at thebrokenmiracle.com, but then also over at "Saved by the Page", Elizabeth, you're part of this, "Saved by the Page". Tell me, tell us more about how that all kinda came about, because I think it's important for people to learn about it.

 

- You're asking me about the story that I shared in the anthology?

 

- Yeah.

 

- Yeah, yes.

 

- So I thought about the way in which I came to the realization that I have to do things that are authentic to myself. And what I mean by that is that I went through a period of my life when I decided that I would not read fiction anymore because it's not serious. And back then I had decided to go to law school and I truly wanted it to work but I realized that without the creative outlet in my life, and without stories, without books, without the fact that there was no story inside my mind that I could think about when I put my head on the pillow, I went to sleep. My life was pretty empty and I wasn't feeling well and back then, the last book in "The Dark Tower" series came out translated in Romanian and it was my favorite, it still is my favorite series and I said, "Okay, only this one." I would start, I would read it because I just want to know how it ends. And after that it was another and another and another, and then I started reading "Percy Jackson" in English, and that opened a whole new world for me, and I saw that I felt so differently like before I was feeling depressed and I was lying to myself that I enjoyed law school but I realized that I can't do this for the rest of my life and I have to feel that I'm doing authentic things. And then I realized that for the past three years when I was in reading slump, the publishing world went on without me and there were so many new books that came out that I had no idea about. I didn't know what was trendy, what was new, what should I write, what should I read and this is how I discovered Instagram and Bookstagram. And I started following book accounts sharing big sweet books once in a while and in time, I started creating more and more complex pictures to the point where you can see.

 

- She, yeah, when she sent me the notes on WhatsApp, I'm like, "Oh, okay." And I'm not just saying this 'cause you know, when an author gives a book to a reviewer, even if it's a friend, you want that honest opinion, at least I do, I don't want people to sugar coat anything, I'd much rather have a friend tell me, oh, this isn't as good, or this isn't as strong by some random person. So I've always treasured Liz's input even when I was ready, "Henderbell", she was one of the first people to read that and she gave me some great notes on "Henderbell" before it was even published, so I valued her opinion. When I saw her message, I was like, "Okay, so this is good, this is good."

 

- When does "The Broken Miracle" come out? Part one.

 

- "The Broken Miracle" part one comes out February 2nd, 2021.

 

- And how do people, I mean, so do we need to wait till?

 

- I'm so hyped, so you can pay on it, the paperbag now, you can put it on the paperbag now, November, ebook pre-orders will begin and it comes out February 2021 and then on the day of release of part one, everybody will know when part two is going to come out and I promise it won't take that long.

 

- You know what's great Elizabeth is, what's great about this is years ago, you know, I got my start in essence because an author, a New York Times bestselling author, Richard Paul Evans had written a book called "The Christmas Box" and everyone thought his fictional story was true. So he came to me and said, "Can you write, can you score a soundtrack for the book?" I said, "I've never heard of a soundtrack for a book, I only hear of soundtracks for a film." And that whole experience of reading and creating music to it was the beginning of this journey that I'd been on in music career. And so also with "The Broken Miracle" novel, there is a soundtrack that'll be coming out, which is my next album, my next album and it's gonna be, we've got some songs on there, some vocals and very well-known prominent vocalist are part of this, but that's not till November when everybody gets to find out who's on there.

 

- But we can't even tell anyone.

 

- Nope.

 

- We can't even tell-

 

- Nope, not yet, not yet, not yet. There's a process with record labels, you have to get all the legal, everything taken care of to ensure everything. But I'm excited about this and Elizabeth, when is, the project that you're working on right now, when do you think you and James will have that incredible piece of work done?

 

- We barely started it but what we want to do is to write it much faster than the first book. Because having the experience of the first book behind us, we know we're much better writers right now and we know much more about the way to craft the story, to create the characters, to develop them so hope as fast as possible.

 

- That's exact, well, one thing I like to ask my guests on "All Heart" is one question to wrap it up. So I'm gonna ask both of you. I'm gonna start with you, Elizabeth, and then J.D. When your life is over and you're gone, what is your hope with all your heart that people will remember? What do you want people to know or remember about Elizabeth Sagan?

 

- I, of course want to leave something behind, a piece of creation, anything, a good deed, something that changed, not the world, because we stopped hoping for change the world, but at least something to change the life, the lives of some people, yeah. I hope someone thinks back and thinks about, "I'm glad that I had this person in my life because without her, I wouldn't have done this thing," something like that.

 

- Well, you're clearly on that path right now. So many people love and adore you, you inspire so many of us and again, I've been saying this, but watching your creation and everything you do, you have been blessed completely, thoroughly. So everyone, please go and look up Elizabeth Sagan, her work, her books. Where do you want people, specifically? Do you have a website?

 

- No, not anymore, I created a website, but James and I stopped writing on it so our main platform is Instagram.

 

- Beautiful, okay, and what's your, okay. I'll direct everyone there, so thank you so much, J.D. JD when you're, after you've conquered or destroyed our religions or whatever your, that. I want my audience to know that J.D. is a uniter, he's a man of peace, he's been on an incredible journey and I've gotten to know him in such a unique and powerful way. And you know, this, we joke about a lot of things, we're quite facetious, but this is a good person, a good man who really wants to bring people together and help people and that is the reason I went ahead and said, "Yes, J.D. is the guy". Writing, and I knew your heart. I know your heart. So when you're gone and you're out flying on a dragon with the Nereus in another world, what do you hope people remember about J.D. Netto?

 

- I want people to remember that I was someone who dared, and that's where the sentence ends, I dared, I dare to do it, I dare to fight for it. Even when I had a thousand reasons not to, I still chose to look at the glass half full, 'cause I could, I could have, I had many reasons not to believe in anything, but I never allowed that to dictate my future, and so that's what I want people to remember me for. You know, obviously the stories and the art and everything, they're just glimpses of that and I think Liz can also understand that the photos and the writing, we leak what we really are, you know, a leak is an accident. So that's who we are and I think that's what art is. So I just want people to remember me as someone who dared to do it, to believe, to keep on going, even when it couldn't, and considering that I have a whole bunch of horcruxes up here, you know, I'm immortalized in, it's gonna be eight books next year.

 

- Yeah. The legacy left behind. Hey, thank you, guys, this been a lot of fun. I'm so honored to have you all kinda here. Thank you guys very, very much.

 

- Thank you.

 

- Thank you so much for having me.

 

- All right, you guys take care.

 

- Bye, bye.